FREQUENTLY
ASKED QUESTIONS
Of
Marvin Ganote
These questions represent the questions I have received
through my teachings. I hope the On-line Cyber-Sunday School will be a dialog
so I can learn from you. I was a member of a
R. GIRBY
GODSEY -ALL
THEORIES OF THE ATONEMENT
ARE NONSENSE
1. APOSTLES MISSION AWARENESS - I don't understand how the Apostles or disciples for that matter had truly been born again if the message they understood from Jesus was only concerning an earthly kingdom. It seems to me they somehow missed the entire focus of Jesus' ministry!?
a)
The issue is faith in Jesus; not how well they
understood his mission. And it is faith, as God defines it that leads to
salvation and new birth. We tend to impose upon them our requirements for
today. Certainly today we must believe per ACTS
2. PENTECOSTAL EXPERIENCE - What exactly is this phenomenon called the Pentecostal experience?
a) This is a case where one can be saved and not understand and do correct doctrine in this matter. Belief about the Holy Spirit's work is not a salvation requirement. I have been a part of this "experience" and to me it is a matter of sincere people doing what they have been told is true. They feel uplifted because they are doing what the leaders say is Godly. The "tongues things" is mainly an imagination born from a real zeal to be Godly.
3. TONGUES - Does the Holy Spirit still enable some people to speak in foreign languages they have not learned?
a) Probably so. But most Pentecostals teach every Christian must speak in a tongue in order to prove they have the Holy Spirit. The Assembly church I was in required speaking in tongues before anyone could teach. Yet Paul specifically said not all speak in tongues. So in my experience, most of the Pentecostal experience is forced spiritual behavior by saved people who have not correctly learned the Bible in this matter.
4. WHAT IS A WITNESS? - Do you consider the way a person conducts himself in the "world" to be a witness or testimony of their walk with the Lord? Or, in order to fulfill Jesus' commandment, that it must always include a verbal presentation of the Gospel?
a) A true witness is living a life that backs up the words we say. We are to tell what Jesus has done for us and how we got where we are. But how will people believe what we say if our daily life shows something different? This is why Jesus commanded us to witness as we go so we will have creditability. But that does not always mean taking a tract and using it with every person we meet. Remember that Paul said in 1 Cor 3 that doing the progress of a lost person toward making Jesus Lord, some may plant and water before there is the harvest. Yet each is as important as the other. And that can mean a lot of different things. That is why a proper class in witnessing is so useful and can be encouraging, particularly when you have not yet experienced being there during a harvest.
5. WITNESSING CLASSES - Last week you were sharing about Soul winners and I believe implied or stated that soul winning classes were not biblical. Does that mean they we should not be instructed in this area at all and let God be our sole (soul) teacher?
a) No. What I am saying is going to Soul WITNESSING classes is good and necessary for most of us. But if the teaching becomes one of Soul WINNING, then it misses the mark and becomes counter-productive. We cannot win anyone. But we can witness "as we go" where ever we go. A major problem today is Revivals have become the primary thrust of too many churches. We have lost the "you shall be witnesses unto me" that Jesus specified. We have much to learn on how to be an effective witness. We need to leave soul-winner to the Soul Winner. [Actually the terminology needs revision but we must use the words being spoken today even if it is not the best way to say it. But the writers of the Bible had the same problem.]
6. SPIRITUAL GIFTS - How do I discover what is my spiritual gift?
a) Dr. Kelly, President of the New Orleans Theological Seminary defines a spiritual gift as:
i) A spiritual gift is the supernatural ability to do what God wants you to do.
ii) Spiritual gifts may be related to our personality or our talents, but they are not determined by our personality or talents. Our spiritual gifts are supernaturally given, and they are determined by God's purpose for our lives.
b) Make sure you know the real Greek definition of a spiritual gift which is a spiritual grace endowment by the Holy Spirit for the purpose of (1 Cor 12:7 RSV) "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good."
c) Recognize that Romans 12:4-8; 1 Cor 12:8-10; Eph 4:11-12 are NOT complete lists, but represent some of the grace endowments used with the early Christians.
d)
Get into serious personal Bible study, prayer and the
living of a righteous life style. Through this the endowment will come forward
as you become capable of enhancing the "common good." This is the
most critical part in your discovery process.
Becoming capable means you have the spiritual attitude and commitment to
enhance the common good. Capability to do so will come with time and spiritual
growth.
e) Discipleship training courses are good if you don't get carried into their error that Paul gives a complete list of endowments. The usual gift survey is limited to about eight types of endowments. Use them as guides but don't take the answers as the final word. Since they ignore many other unlisted categories, you may think you have a particular endowment when, in fact, you have an unlisted one. Therefore use these courses and surveys but remember their bias and limitations. It is not helpful to try and do a task in the wrong endowment category.
f) Don't confuse grace endowments monitored by the Holy Spirit with the administrations monitored by Jesus and the operations monitored by the Father.
g) A Christian may be assigned multiple endowments along with administrations and operations. But every Christian is assigned at least one from any category.
7. BIBLE INERRANCY - "I want to challenge you in love about your last lesson, esp. the statement that God allowed the writers of the scripture to write, as they pleased, not under the direction of the Holy Spirit totally. This view it seems to mistakes the doctrinal belief of the inerrancy of the Bible and disregards 2 Pet 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 2 Pet 1:21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.(RSV) My understanding from your lesson was that God allowed a writer to put down his own thoughts not those of the Holy Spirit. 2nd Peter states clearly to me that men did not write of their own accord or will, but only what the Spirit gave them."
Answer:
a) Sorry that I didn't come across clearly. I tried to say that God allowed the personality and social times of the authors to come through. The key is indeed "moved by the Holy Spirit." This is not putting down their own views, but putting the message from God in the language of their day. ["The thought inspiration school holds that God inspired the ideas but the writer expressed them in his own words. By whatever method used, the Holy Spirit guarded the authors from error as they wrote what God wanted them to say." (Fundamentals of Our Faith, Herschel H. Hobbs, Broadman Press, 1960, 0-8054-1702-8, 4217-02, page 2)]
a) That is what I was trying to say. For example: Luke used a surgical needle while the rest used a sewing needle for the camel going through the eye of a needle. I absolutely believe 2 Pet 1:20-21. We cannot pit and close what we believe. The authors wrote what the Holy Spirit wanted. The original writings are error-free and the doctrine of the inerrancy of the scripture is a fact. See the Bible for more comments.
8. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS - Of the existing Bible translations which do you believe are the most accurate. I think you use an RSV. Who is the publisher for your RSV? What do think about NRSV?
a) I do use the Harper Study Bible in RSV by Zondervan. I also use the KJV and base Hebrew and Greek definitions upon the sources used by the KJV.
b) The NRSV is a slight improvement. "It avoids language that might inappropriately suggest limits of gender." In a lot of cases this is exactly what the Greek means. For example GAL 4:5 (NRSV) "in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children [sons - RSV/KJV/Young's Literal Translation]." The Greek is 5206. Huiothesia and means adoption (of children, of sons).
c) There is no version that you do not have to go to the Greek or Hebrew and make commentary statements that the original says it differently. The NRSV does not translate PS 23.6 properly and still uses "follow" insetad of "pursue." YLT correctly reads "Only -- goodness and kindness pursue me, All the days of my life, And my dwelling [is] in the house of Jehovah, For a length of days!"
d) I have used the RSV because it was better for American English than the KJV and thus more accurate in our modern language. The NKJV is sort of a RSV/NRSV.
e) I have bought a NRSV but will still use my RSV in SS and DT until it falls apart too much because it has so many notes in it. The KJV is always a part of the lesson.
f) I think the most accurate NT is probably the one by Williams. But it has its weaknesses too. I don't know if it is still in print.
9.
WHAT IS THE GOOD? - I would appreciate your
thoughts on some verses. Namely Rom.
a) H.H. Hobbs in his book ROMANS A Verse by Verse Study, Word Books, 1977, pages 110 & 112 made the following two significant points:
i) Romans 8:28-30 "is in the nature of a summary of God's dealings with man through the Holy Spirit.
ii) "While God is sovereign in history, this in no way violates the free will of either good or evil men. God works with the good and against the evil."
b) The one's for whom God works for the good are only Christians. They are the only one's who "called according to his purpose." Paul has previously defined these "one's" in Rom 8:9-13 as Christians.
c) This good is directly defined by God's "purpose" for calling people to become Christians. What is this purpose? Verse 29 states: "to be conformed to the image of his Son…" Or as Paul put it in (Col 1:9b-10 KJV) "to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; {10} That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;"
d) Therefore good is spiritual good versus spiritual evil. Naturally, since humans are also physical, the spiritual is reflected in the physical. But the physical does not drive or define the situation. Good means the spiritual good of Christians.
e) You are correct that this verse is often misused to mean physical things, like money and health. This is not to say God doesn't intervene in such physical matters for Christians. But this is not his "purpose." We see from chapters 1-8 that Paul is addressing spiritual issues and not physical. As a summary of these chapters, this verse and its good is confined to spiritual good. The context does not include material possessions.
f) Bible verses must be read in their contexts and not isolated or taken beyond these contexts.
g) Note (Eccl 5:18-19 KJV) "Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion. {19} Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God." Many want to make ", which God giveth him" refer to physical things when it actually refers to " all the days of his life." God gives us life, as he did Adam and Eve. Through this life, God makes it possible for humans to gain physical things by human "labour." So it is human labor that causes material possessions and not God. The Hebrews and most pagans believed that money was a blessing of God (the gods) as a reward for being good. The more money you had, the closer you were to God. That is why, in Jesus' day, the Jews honored people of wealth and looked down upon poor people. Unfortunately this view is often held today. But it has no Bible merit.
10. R. GIRBY GODSEY - ALL THEORIES OF THE ATONEMENT ARE NONSENSE - Did you correspond with R. Kirby Godsey or any of the trustees of Mercer before recommending that parents not send their children there or did you depend entirely on the word of Ross McLaren and his reference to a Baptist Press article. I have not read the Godsey book that was quoted but there are two sides to every story, and to repeat something that someone else says without checking the primary sources is not good scholarship. I have read your comments for some time now, but now I wonder how much I should trust them.
a) Thank you for reading my lesson thoughts. I believe I do proper scholarship in my lessons or I would quit. But no man is infallible. But I always try to be as correct as possible. Still the final decision as to what is true can only be made between you and the Holy Spirit after gathering as much data as possible.
b) I said in the 21 Sep 97 lesson: "I recommend you consider long and hard before you place any of your loved ones under the influence of R. Girby Godsey at Mercer University. See words on Prov 22:6 below."
c) You will notice that I did not say "that parents not send their children there." What I said is you should give it careful consideration. I meant that you should know what you are getting into. A Baptist name doesn't automatically mean proper doctrine in belief or instruction. A president doesn't run the doctrines of the various professors. But he does set the tone and he does hire and fire those who teach within the rules of the college.
d) I have not yet been able to connect with Mercer University. They are still off-line as I type. Nor have I been able to get the book. Certainly it is reasonable to believe that McLaren quoted accurately the words he put into the Hobbs Commentary when he quoted from the book on (pg 20) "that all theories of the atonement are nonsense. He claimed that the cross was not the central or final revelation of God. If true, it is serious enough to investigate the flag he reluctantly is waving. I agree there are usually two sides. Surely, the Georgia Baptist Convention Committee's opinion is also worth a consideration.
e) But again I did not say not to send children to Mercer. I did say look at all the people who may teach your child there.
f) I felt a call for thought now was important because college is being started again all over the nation. There is no time to wait for parents, if McLaren's anaylsis is right. Jesus' Cross event is the core central to the Plan of Salvation. Jesus and the Cross are the FINAL Revelations of God. Certainly many theories that exist around the cross are nonsense but not all theories. I would not want my child under the tone that the Cross is not central and God has yet to give new and additional revelations. That makes the Bible incomplete and is not as the Baptist faith and Message and SBC doctrine state; let alone the Bible itself being very specific.
g) If you are sending a child to a supposed Christian college, it is wise to know if it is one with proper doctrine. It is only prudent. Because of the time factor, I raised a call for the scholarship you rightly mentioned. It is the parents who should do this scholarship here.
h) In summary I did not say Mercer should not be attended. I did say look at it carefully before you do. There is always room for opinion and differences on how the apply the Bible's doctrines. I feel called to bring out these doctrines with Jesus and the Cross Event being central to the whole Bible and every doctrine.
a) Your text did not mention Jesus' death on the cross with respect to suicide. I would like your thoughts on the matter. 1 Peter 3:18 (and other versus) makes it clear that He was "put to death". However, Scripture makes it clear that Jesus gave up his life willingly (Matt 27:50). He gave In John 19:30, Jesus declared "It was finished." At this point Baptists have been taught that he dismissed his spirit, i.e. his life. He gave it up. Was that suicide in the sense that he ended his life himself? In John 10:17-18 Jesus said, "I lay down my life...No one takes it from me". Obviously, He did not do it to avoid abuse and pain, and He was not seeking mercy. He used no instrument to accomplish his death. Did he act using only His human will when he gave up His life, or did He utilize His divine abilities? With respect to question at hand, This last question could lead down a "rabbit trail," so it is not necessary to answer it. But John (John 10:18) says he had "authority to lay it down...". We normally associate suicide with a "coward's way out," but Jesus was no coward. The word doesn't seem appropriate, and certainly not in the case of extreme love. When someone willingly gives their life in a heroic action, we normally associate that death with "great love" as taught by Jesus (John 15:13). It is the act of a true "friend." It does not sound like a suicide to me. Your thoughts?
b)
REPLY
i) Thank you for your comments and your interesting question. You are quite correct, " It does not sound like a suicide to me."
ii) In John 10:17 the word for "lay" in Greek is 5087. tithemi, tith'-ay-mee; a prol. form of a prim. theo, theh'-o (which is used only as alt. in cert. tenses); to place (in the widest application, lit. and fig.; prop. in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from G2476, which prop. denotes as upright and active position, while G2749 is prop. reflexive and utterly prostrate):--+ advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down. "Take" is 2983. lambano, lam-ban'-o; a prol. form of a prim. verb, which is used only as an alt. in certain tenses; to take (in very many applications, lit. and fig. [prop. obj. or act., to get hold of; whereas G1209 is rather subj. or pass., to have offered to one; while G138 is more violent, to seize or remove]):--accept, + be amazed, assay, attain, bring, X when I call, catch, come on (X unto), + forget, have, hold, obtain, receive (X after), take (away, up).
iii) What we have is Jesus reconfirming his commitment to the Cross Event. He made it clear he is not and cannot be forced by anyone to either proceed with or reject the Cross Event. The Father gave him this freewill right to make the choice himself.
iv) Therefore on the Cross, when he said "It is finished" in a voice of completion, he had spent enough time of the Cross as the carrier of "sin" to have fulfilled the role of the Lamb. So he said (John 19:30 RSV) "When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished"; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." "Gave" is 3860. paradidomi, par-ad-id'-o-mee; from G3844 and G1325; to surrender, i.e. yield up, intrust, transmit:--betray, bring forth, cast, commit, deliver (up), give (over, up), hazard, put in prison, recommend. Jesus thus intrusted his spirit into the hands of the Father. It is the Father who took Jesus' life. Jesus certainly did not commit suicide. He simply trusted the Father to preserve his spirit in death that resulted at the hand of the Father. After all, part of the Cross Event mission was to die so he could be raised by the Father. And this is a key element. Jesus did not get himself out of death, anymore than he put himself into death. Both were in the hands of the Father. Note that this is unique. The Father rarely caused any human to die. And never has he caused anyone else to die and then made them live again. Jesus trusted the Father to take his life and give it back as the Scriptures said.
a) Also do you believe in the Trinity? If so how do you explain it?
b) REPLY
i)
I certainly
do. The Trinity is a well-documented Bible fact. The Trinity consists of three independent and perfectly united Divine
Persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. None are
individually whom we commonly call "God." The Trinity is God.
ii) Gen 1:1 begins with the Trinity working in creation of the earth. Gen 1:26 is the first statement about the Trinity directly when it says "Let us make man after our own image…"
iii) Deut 6:4 is a positive statement about the actually of the Trinity. Most Jews today and too many Christian groups believe it teaches God is a single Person God. But this is not what the Hebrew says. Dr. H. H. Hobbs once said that the Hebrew word used in "one God" is a word different from the number one. This word means a unified oneness; a unification. So it actually reads " Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is a unified oneness God." Or better: "Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our Elohim is a unified oneness Elohim."
iv) No clearer proof of the Three Persons of God exists than at the baptism of Jesus. The Father spoke from Heaven. Jesus stood on the earth. The Holy Spirit flew in the sky looking like a dove. I have never heard a good argument from the Egg or Ice theory people about this verse. Their theory is God is like water which can be liquid, solid or vapor, sometimes in the same location. But Jesus absolutely taught that he was separate from the Father and pointed the saved to worship the Father.
v) Jesus was clear he was going to a place and to a Person when he spoke to Mary after his Resurrection. (John 20:17 KJV) "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
vi) The Cross is also a clear proof of the separate Persons of the Trinity. Jesus prayed to the Father. I cannot believe Jesus would deceive us into thinking he was praying to someone else when he was not. The Ice theory has to say Jesus was praying to himself, which makes no sense.
vii) On the Cross Jesus gave up his spirit to the Father's care. That is absolute proof of the Trinity. (Luke 23:46 KJV) "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
viii) Yahweh is the one and only name of the Trinity. (Exo 3:14 KJV) "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." "I AM" in Hebrew is YHWH or Yahweh.
ix) Jesus commanded that the name of the Trinity be used when a Christian is baptized. (Mat 28:19 KJV) "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" That name is Yahweh. Yet when do you ever hear this name being used? Everyone just uses the phrase and not the Name! Why can't we follow even the simplest instructions of Jesus?
a) First, why did our Lord say that it would have been better if Judas had not been born, and secondly, I believe that lost people can cast out demons. Based on Matthew 7:22, 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
i)
REPLY: We must
remember that all scriptures must be interpreted in context not only with the
immediately surrounding verses, but also the whole book and in fact the whole Bible.
ii) Doing this we see Jesus consistently used the overstatement technique common in that day. Example: (Luke 17:1-2 RSV) "And he said to his disciples, "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come! {2} It would be better for him if a millstone were hung round his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin." Did he mean that a saved disciple could become lost? I think not. The wording is meant to emphasize the serious nature of this particular sin.
iii) (Mat 26:24 RSV) "The Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born."" We have here another overstatement. Judas certainly committed a grave sin. But the only sin that God cannot forgive is the rejection of Jesus as lord and Savior. (John 3:18 RSV) "He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." Judas believed in Jesus as did the rest of the Apostles. No one understood well what Jesus was all about, but that did not prevent their salvation. Note that Jesus made this statement just before Judas left the Upper Room. Jesus attempted to get Judas to repent before he committed his betrayal. Jesus tried to stop him but the freewill choice was for Judas to make.
iv) (Mat 7:22-23 RSV) "On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' {23} And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'" This is aligned with (Mat 7:21 RSV) ""Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Salvation is not by words but by personal faith and commitment to Jesus as Lord Messiah. (Acts 20:21 RSV) "testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance to God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Note that the people in verses 22-23 are lost people who think or want to believe they are saved. They are people who believe works will saved. (Eph 2:9 RSV) "not because of works, lest any man should boast." Can lost people do “miracles”? Yes. But they are not from God. Satan has the power to do things beyond the laws of the universe. An example is (Exo 7:11-12 RSV) "Then Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers; and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same by their secret arts. {12} For every man cast down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods." These “secret arts” are ways to gain power from Satan. Also a lot of people invoke Jesus name but it is not a magic phrase. Just because you say, “In Jesus’ name I command this and so” won’t get Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, to do it. As for Judas, Jesus personally gave him the power to cast out demons and to heal. Again, Jesus does not give miracle power to lost people.
v) Judas was saved. He made many mistakes and sins. But so did Peter, who at one time Jesus called him “Satan in the flesh.”
a) FURTHER COMMENTS:
i)
Jesus selected him and
designated him an Apostle to make, lead and train new Christians. Would Jesus have
placed a lost person in this position?
ii) Jesus gave him powers and responsibilities equal to the rest of the Apostles. (Mat 10:5-8 RSV) "These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, {6} but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. {7} And preach as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' {8} Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay."
iii) Jesus commanded Judas to win the lost. Can a lost person really witness and do this? Would Jesus ever give the Great Commission to a lost person? (Mat 10:7 RSV) "And preach as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'" This is a most critical fact.
iv) Jesus commanded Judas to “cast out demons”. If he were lost this is the same as going against Satan. The lost would not achieve this. (Mark 3:23-26 RSV) "And he called them to him, and said to them in parables, "How can Satan cast out Satan? {24} If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. {25} And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. {26} And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end."
v)
(Mat 10:4 RSV)
"Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed
him." The Greek is 3860. paradidomi, par-ad-id'-o-mee; from G3844
and G1325; to surrender, i.e. yield up, intrust, transmit:--betray, bring
forth, cast, commit, deliver (up), give (over, up), hazard, put in
prison, recommend. You cannot betray anyone if you are not part of the group.
Betray means that a person once was inline with the group but has now gone
against the group by personal choice. Judas was once for Jesus but later went
against him.
vi)
Jesus called Judas a friend. (Psa 41:9 RSV) "Even my bosom friend in whom I trusted,
who ate of my bread, has lifted his heel against me." Would Jesus called a
lost person a friend and trust him?
vii)
Jesus said the same to
Peter, to whom he had previously called Satan. (Mat 16:23 RSV) "But he turned and said to Peter,
"Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me; for you are not
on the side of God, but of men."" Does this mean Peter was lost or
just acting as a lost person would? Certainly Peter was what Paul would call a
babe in Christ at this time.
viii) In (John 17:12 RSV)
"While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast
given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son
of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled." People
wrong assume that “lost” here means spiritually lost to Hell. Looking at the
Greek: Lost - Greek - 622. apollumi, ap-ol'-loo-mee; from G575 and the
base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflex. to perish, or lose), lit. or
fig.:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish. Perdition - Greek- 684. apoleia,
ap-o'-li-a; from a presumed der. of G622; ruin or loss (phys.,
spiritual or eternal):--damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X
perish, pernicious ways, waste. What Jesus said was Judas was a saved
person wasted to witnessing. Jesus had spent three years of effort into
training Judas as an Apostle. Judas chose to disregard this when he realized
Jesus was not going to be a political-military messiah for the Jews. It would
not be until after the Ascension before the other Eleven would also come to
this truth. Being a Zealot, Judas himself felt betrayed by Jesus and lashed out
momentarily at him.
ix)
Was Judas’ lost life
to Christian service unique? Unfortunately not. Look at Acts 5. These were
saved people who became similarly lost to a wasted life. Also 1 Cor
5:1-5. This man was a saved person but lost to service because of his sin. But
he was still saved.
x) Judas did repent but could not forgive himself and live with the shame of betrayal. (Mat 27:3 RSV) "When Judas, his betrayer, saw that he was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders,"
xi) So he killed himself. Does suicide cause a saved person to be lost? Paul said (Rom 8:38-39 RSV) "For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, {39} nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
b) This is not exhaustive but gives the basis of my thinking.
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